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Hello and welcome to the true crime podcast beyond the ferns with your host Susie buckle up Things are about to get a little scary hello, and welcome back to another week of beyond the ferns. I'm so happy to have you here you have endured three whole episodes of wild, crazy daunting. Absolutely bananas. Events. And that is the Malala forest killer. That was a doozy. I warned you and I'm sure that you're sitting there. Like, can I do this again? Can I really walk into this lion's den another week? And I want to say, if you're here, you're my kind of person. You're able to endure that, recover and decide that you want some more. I come into you and you're right where you need to be. And we are pivoting to a completely different vibe today. And that is the winger case. This one is located in the Midwest Today's case I will be taking you to the land and the era of the Furbies and the Tama got cheese. The nineties. On August 29th, 1995, mark winger, a Springfield Illinois resident called 9 1 1 to report a crime that had just occurred in his home. Now as he's calling, he's frantically screaming into the phone. Mark is screaming into the phone. Please come. I shot a man that was killing my wife. Paramedics arrived shortly after to the scene. And two people were on the floor, barely breathing. And as they walk in, they can see from their vantage point from the doorway, these two people on the ground, and there was blood everywhere. It was coded throughout the floorboards all the way up to the ceilings, to the walls, to the furniture, everything was filled with blood. And it looked like the woman on the ground that was referred to as Donna, which is Mark's wife had been hit several times with a hammer. And another man laid on the floor about five feet away from her body, but two gunshot wounds to his head and his legs are facing in the direction of Donna's head. They had giant pools of blood that were on the floor by each body. And that's when police The man's feet were opposite of Donna's head. And there were giant pools of blood near both bodies. Officer Cox. Berenger Williamson and Jones arrived to the scene. Now when the officers arrived, Berenger actually took photos of the crime scene. And other officers went around the scene and focused on the blood splatters, anything at the crime scene that they could find and take into questioning. And of course they were tending to mark who at this point was very inconsolable. Donna is being taken into an ambulance to the hospital they were still trying to resuscitate her, but she was barely breathing. And so she is taken into an ambulance and mark decides to hang back and talk with Dan Jones who was writing down Mark's statement at the time mark explained his story. He said he was in the basement running on his treadmill, and while he was running, he heard a thud. He thought he better go upstairs and see what was going on. He first went up the stairs and checked in on Bailey. Their newborn daughter and Bailey was laying unattended on the bed, which was very odd. Given Donna would never leave Bailey unattended on a bed or unattended anywhere. Mark continued to walk towards the sounds of the commotion going on in the dining room. He decided to make a quick stop at his nightstand to grab his gun. And then he entered into the room and he sees Donna on her knees as a man was swinging a hammer at her head. Donna was bleeding profusely And she already seemed to be clearly headed towards unconsciousness. In order to have any chance at stopping this man. Mark drew his gun and shot him. During this time, officer Cox was checking the man's coat for any identification. And he found his wallet and inside was an ID that said, Roger Harrington. Mark continued to ask who the man was over and over again. He just wanted to know he was ballistic. He was frantic and he would not drop it. At officers' kind of bite of their time, a little bit until he had called out. And then they were billed the name out loud. Mark explained shortly after in response to the name. Oh, my God. That's the man that's been harassing my wife this week. Mark shared information about Donna taking an airport shuttle ride after visiting her family in Florida. And what all occurred during that moment. The ride was absolutely terrifying to her so much so that she contacted her husband and sister after it happened and said that she was nervous that this man was going to come after her and her family. She was absolutely concerned for her safety. And mark explained the Donna that he thought she should write down all the details of the altercation. And that he would handle it. Mark ended up notifying the driver's company of their dissatisfaction with the service and calling and explaining his complaints and absolute concern for the person who had taken his wife from the airport back home. This was the man who was on the ground currently and who they suspected was an absolute rage from the fact that he had been suspended from his job. And Mr. Seeking retaliate. Officer Charles Cox took his story and listen to it very closely, but also had his own bias towards Roger. Now, remember this is a close knit community of Springfield, Illinois. Everyone knows everyone, or at least within little small community areas and suburbs. And so he knew Roger. And Roger was no stranger to him. Officer Cox knew of him because he had rented a trailer to him years back. He knew Roger to be quick tempered and thought it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities for him to seek retaliation for mark calling in to get him suspended. Roger had received psychiatric evaluation because he had a history of delusions and other mental health related concerns. Officer Cox was also at the scene of an altercation years before where Harrington and his wife had a domestic dispute picture is painted and officer Cox's brain. That showed a direct correlation of Rogers. And of his possibility of being an offender in this attack. Now mark provided a statement separately to offer, sir, Charles Cox reciting the facts of the prison murder sharing. After he shot Harrington, Roger fell and rolled off. Donna. Onto the floor. Another important fact was I shot hearing tennis. Second time, the forehead, Outside of mark statements, there really were no other statements to take. Other witnesses of the crime were neighbors near the winger residents. And neighbors claimed that they saw a man and an Oldsmobile arrive to the house. He parked his car in the opposite direction of traffic. He waited a few moments and made his way inside the house. Now there was no forced entry. That they knew of. However, there was no real explanation as to why he was there. Circumstantial evidence pointed to Roger, been upset about his recent suspension and enraged and in a state. To law enforcement. Mark was a hero. He saw his wife in danger. He came to her rescue. He took out the bad guy. There was really no other person to point to. Just a few short hours later, the case was closed. Mark was paid out$150,000 for Donna's life insurance and 25,000 from the Missouri's crime victims compensation program. And that was that. The homicides were listed as merely an unforeseen trash. Let's go back to six years prior. In 1989 Mark's brother introduced Donna and mark they first began their courtship after meeting on a blind date. They immediately fell for one another. And in 1989, Donna and mark got married. Mark's job as a nuclear engineer, led them to the town of Springfield, Illinois. Donna was happy to follow her husband there and become a technician at a local hospital. Donna and mark had the Dylan. Life. The American dream. Well-respected they lived a middle-class lifestyle. They lived in a beautiful neighborhood and they had close-knit family and friends. They were most proud of their strong Jewish roots. They were a lovely pair and their loved ones who adored them. Said that they adored them, not only individually, but as a couple. Donna's loved one shared that quote, Donna lit up her room. And mark was always so funny, smart, quiet. He loved recording home videos of his family and sharing in all of his family gatherings.. Now Donna had three sisters and they always joked with some truth. That whenever one sister marries that man ends up marrying all three sisters. And Donna also had a close friend from the hospital den that was at many family functions and shared and a lot of their happiness. The only thing missing for this happy couple. Was a baby. From the moment they got married, Donna swooned over the idea of having a family. SHEEX specially wanted kids. All she wanted was to be a mother. It was ingrained in her. Mark was excited about the idea of being a father to. They wanted to grow their family. And it was the perfect time they had the perfect foundation. However, the sad truth was that Donna and mark tried for years to get pregnant. They were met with the hard truth that Donna was unable to. Sadly the couple found themselves in turmoil. Both of them, rather than it bringing them together, it tore them apart. It was the cause of much tension in the relationship that they couldn't get pregnant. Donna was extremely depressed that maybe they wouldn't have that family that they wished for. Until one. Beautiful happenstance day in 1995. It was just a normal day for Donna. She went into work. And she was supposed to be working in the operating room that day. And within the operating room was a teenager who had just recently had a baby. Immediately after the baby was born. The team confessed to healthcare staff that she just didn't think she could provide for the baby. And when need to put her up for adoption. The healthcare staff. Weren't really sure what to do. They looked around and they started sharing this information from one person to another. Eventually the information led its way to Donna. They said, you know, Donna, do you know anyone that would want this baby? It seemed kismet. It seemed like the stars were aligning. Donna was elated by the idea that she could have her baby. They started the process of adoption.. Donna went and told mark and mark was equally as excited and they felt that their missing puzzle piece. Was found. They could begin their life with Bailey.. Everyone was so excited. After Donna and mark were able to adopt or go through the process of adopting Bailey Donna's family was very involved. They were excited to fly up from Florida and visit with the baby and her first moments of being in the household. They came up and they were delighted to spend all of this precious time. However, they knew that that time would come to an end when they had to, you know, go back to their day, the day life. Life in Florida. Florida. Spent the whole week. It's such a sweet time together. And then of course it was bittersweet when we ended and Donna had to head back. Sarah Donna's mom thought in order to lower stress for Donna and Bailey, she wanted to arrange for an airport shuttle to take them from. The airport to Springfield where they lived because they airport, they were flying into was two hours from Springfield. They thought instead of her having to rent a car or be in charge of finding travel plans, it would make it a lot easier for both of them. As they get to the airport, they find the shuttle driver, they get into the van. Immediately as they get into the van, the airport shuttle driver starts acting very strange. He starts making crude comments and explains his involvement with drugs. And how he has lots of sex parties and how he wants to invite Donna to these sex parties. He said to Donna that he had a voice inside his head named Dom. And Dom told him to do bad things. He told him to hurt people. This accusation alone and this unwarranted conversation and comment. Towards Donna. Obviously made her emotions even more heightened during this car ride. As you starting the drive, he's a radically driving down the highway at speeds. Up to 80, 85 miles per hour. Swerve. It was just all around a terrifying moment for Donna. It's not just her in the car, but her new baby as well. Stress from traveling. And I got to spend 90 minutes luckily Donna was able to make it back to her home in Springfield. And immediately when she arrived, she called both her husband, mark and her sister. She wanted to ultimately confide in them what had just happened to her. she called her husband, mark said to her. You know, obviously you're shook by this incident. That seems so terrifying. What I think you should do is sit down with a pen and paper. And write down everything you've experienced from that day. Every detail that you can think of. And I will share that with airport, shell company and file a complaint against the strivers so that we can hopefully fire him from his job. Now the other call me. The other call that was made was to her sister, Michelle Hansen. And she could say it in the phone call that she was very concerned for her life. And she got to the driver would come back and hurt them. And Donna's sister felt she was bewildered and shook to the core, completely nervous by this heroin situation. and Donna was right. This wouldn't be the end of Roger Harrington. Roger had called the house several times and he would call and then hang up and then he would call again and he would hang up so much so that when mark did call in the information to the airport shuttle company, he was suspended from driving. Marc also made a call to police officers to have patrol cars nearby, to make sure the area was kept safe during this time. Furthermore. The report that Roger did have mental health issues you seen by a psychiatrist. And he was known that he did struggle with this years. He did struggle through this throughout He had an incident with his wife, that was a domestic violence incident, they were absolutely shocked that Roger would have done such a terrible act to someone that would be a total stranger to him. He just couldn't believe that. shortly after the murders occurred, Donna's family flew into Springfield to be with mark and the family. They were told immediately upon their arrival that Roger Harrington was the one who had murdered Donna. Uh, funeral was held with loved ones and Donna's family. Also Mark's family and Donna's best Fred D and from the hospital, everyone attended. And was an abundant amount of outpouring of love from the Springfield community. Whether we like it or not, time moves on as it always does. After the tragic murder of Donna. Donna's family wanted to support mark and raising Bailey.. At this point, she was nearly six months at the time. And Donna's family, mother, and sisters would rotate, coming up to Springfield to help out where they could. Mark was still working as a nuclear engineer. And now he was a single dad with his extremely busy work schedule, he could definitely use the help. Donna's sister mentioned that a few times they've visited. His behavior seemed a bit odd. I look at this two different ways. I think that grief manifests in very different ways, along many different people, right? You can't really look at grief and say, Oh, they should be acting this way or they should be handling it this way because everyone handles loss very different.. However, the way they're explaining how mark was seeming, it does raise some level of concern. His behavior seemed on the spectrum of disassociative. Mark drank heavily, went out more and at one point they mentioned a time that mark was watching the dead poet's society. Which had a scene where someone was being shot. They thought it was just weird and it concerning. Given mark only months earlier had shot and killed someone. And was witnessed to such a horrific brutal scene of his wife that he would want to put on this kind of flick. Although they enjoyed the frequent visits to help with Bailey. The family just couldn't keep up with doing this indefinitely. You know, they're coming from Florida to Illinois and that is a hall. They have to ask off work. They have to pay to get there. They're probably covering a lot of expenses. They know that this isn't something that can keep up with. At that point, they urged mark to hire a nanny to take the stress off himself. Mark decides, this is probably the best idea for Bailey and for himself. And he hires Rebecca Simic. She is the new nanny. Now, let me state this and you tell me what your first thoughts are. Rebecca is sweet. She's young. And she's beautiful. And she has such a love for Bailey. That equation to me, sounds like. A lovely thing. If mark, wasn't such a creep. Later interviews, Michelle Hansen, which is Donna sister stated quote, I didn't want to like Rebecca, but it was hard not to like her. After seeing her with Bailey, there was really nothing bad we could say about her. Rebecca states and an ABC interview, quote, mark was crushed. He wanted nothing, but the best for Bailey. She also mentioned that she felt so bad that Bailey had two mothers already at such a young age. All she wanted to do was get in there and make this little girl's life better. Rebecca explained that this was a situation in which it felt easy for her to play house. And continue caring for Bailey alongside mark and mark was always engaging and adored Bailey whenever he wasn't working. He was offering support with bath time, nap time, and he really cared for her. It really quickly from a business connection to a romantic one. As we all kind of saw that coming. Although Rebecca had a mutual connection. She did question marks, quickness. I mean, his wife had been brutally murdered just months before when she Although for Becca had a mutual connection. She did question marks, quickness. I mean, his wife had just been brutally murdered just months before. And when she asked how he could move on so quickly after such a tragic event. Mark responded with quote, when you have a good marriage, it's just natural for you to want that again. Mark explained that he wanted that with Rebecca. He wanted to be married to Rebecca and that he was devastated. He couldn't have a family sharing that he was sterile and unable to have children. However he wanted to have Bailey and Rebecca in his life indefinitely. And she did love mark. So she let whatever was happening happen. Until one day. She found out she was pregnant. Yay. Until one day. She found out she was pregnant. Yay. Not sure. Since it was something she didn't think was possible. She was surprised when she found out. And the pressure to have kids and be married, ramped up another notch by mark. Just 14 months after Donna's death. Rebecca and mark eloped and Hawaii. Without any knowledge from either of their family. After they got married within the same year, mark and Rebecca decided that they wanted to move. They wanted to build a new house in the country. Rebecca had two more daughters. Ana and Maggie.. Their family was growing and there was so much joy within the house. It was loud. It was chaotic. It was filled with ultimate love. Beyond these beautiful moments of this new family. Mark was being deceitful. Mark was starting to pull away from Donna's family and Donna's mother Sarah said in an interview stating that. Quote, mark told me that I could not be called grandma anymore. Donna's sister's one form. They had to keep a distance as well.. Bailey's family that loved her so much. We're now strangers overnight. Bailey even a tested when she was older, that she remembered getting birthday cards every other year and asking her mother, Rebecca. Who Sarah was. And these other names on the cards were. Having no recollection, obviously of the moment she spent with them at a young age. Rebecca would always explain that those were her grandparents and aunts, and they loved her very much. Although their family is happy and joyous, they have created such a divide and wedge between Donna's family. It was as if. Bailey was never theirs. It was as if they didn't know each other. Mark just wanted them to go away. He wanted to have his new family and never look back. For the most part. He did have that until one. Unexpected day. And turn of events. One day mark needed to go to the doctor's office. And Rebecca said that she would accompany him there. As they're in the waiting room, mark spots, a familiar face. DeAnn. Donna's close friend from the hospital. DNH approaches them and she begins to glare. Blatantly obviously clear. At Rebecca and discussed. The awkward circumstance made Rebecca very uncomfortable and she quickly questioned why this woman was so upset by seeing her.. Now, remember this town, isn't huge, nor super small, but you run into people. You see people you're aware of people. And Rebecca had seen Dan before. Remember she went to Donna's funeral. She went to other events. She was around town. Rebecca never had any kind of weird circumstances with her. She didn't understand why there was all of a sudden ill feelings. From Dan about her. Rebecca asks mark and mark said that he didn't know why, but he could bet that they would expect they would be hearing from her soon. Mark was right. It was nearly four years after Donna's death. And shortly following they're running at the doctor's office. Dan called mark. DeAnn called mark. And she was filled with rage. Her wound reopened after seeing Mark's face and realizing that he was living his life perfectly normal again. After what he had done to Donna. So when she called them, she said, how could you live with yourself? Having killed Donna. And mark said without missing a beat quote. I found Jesus Christ. I am forgiven now. It's that easy, I guess. Then he alluded to the fact that if she called anyone, she would be next saying, quote, Goose's will be cooked. AKA. If you tell Eaton soul, you will be next. And in addition, in referencing to Harrington quote, dead men, don't talk clearly stating she was the only one to know about this incident. If this information was leaked. And if this information was leaked, she would be the one that would point. She would be one that you'd be pointing the finger at Dan could not believe that her exit put her in this kind of situation. Clearly stating that the only person that knew this information was either her. Her or Harrington. Who is clearly not here to share the information. That of course was the biggest threat to D ad. Dan. Dan could not believe that her ex had put her in this kind of situation. She could only imagine that she could be in possibly a way worse situation. In a lot more trouble, if she would have agreed to be accomplished to mark. Luckily that wasn't the case. Now I did say X. Okay. Let's keep that in mind. DeAnn felt she could no longer hold in this valuable information. And after discussing this further with her psychiatrist and sharing a lot of the damning evidence, her psychiatrist suggested that she get rid of her guilt completely. And call this information into the police. although we are not team den. I do want to say I'm very happy that she decided to listen to her psychiatrist. Suggestions. She did end up calling in to the police station and she explained that she had some valuable information to the case of mark winger and the death of Donna winger and Roger Harrington. Sharing this could incriminate her and possibly lead to some charges. So she knew that she should share, however, she was kind of fighting that internal battle when she brought this up to law enforcement, they knew that there was a pretty good chance. She held the key to understanding these homicides. Law enforcement agreed that if she shared the information she had and did a full confession, that she would be granted immunity from any charges. Dan agreed to these measures and decided to open up in regards to the case. Dan took law enforcement back to the very beginning. When she first met Donna and became friends with her and there. When they first became friends, DeAnn shared with Donna that she was going through a lot of marriage issues with her husband, John. Donna wanting to be the supportive friend gave her what advice she could. And thought that she could use the help of another male perspective. She spoke to her husband, mark and asked if he'd be willing to help DeAnn with some perspective on how John was feeling and be able to connect with Diane to help her further with. Little to Donna know that her sweet and considerate and thoughtful gesture. Of connecting her husband, mark with her. Best friend D a N. Would results in. A marital affair. Joyous first moments of bringing Bailey home and having their dreams made. We're demolished, at least unknowingly to Donna. Because behind the scenes, according to DN, mark had brought up getting married and exchanging rings. And eventually having to come up with a plan to leave their spouses, John and Donna. Oh, to be a fly on this wall with this conversation. Are you ready for the most chaotic conversation ever? I don't think you can be, but I'm going to give this to you dan. Mentioned that they could both work on divorcing their spouses so they could ultimately be together. But mark said, quote, It would be easier if Donna was dead. And he continued to ask Dee Ann, if she could help with this. All she would really need to do her only. Play in the matter would be discovering Donna's body. Dan said and response. She said, I'm going to divorce, John. And you do what you have to do. AKA. If you have to murder your wife. That is also my best friend. Then do so. But just do it. Don't talk about it with me. Just do it. Do what you need to do. We need to beat together. Wat. Delusional. I'm going to use a common phrase from the kids these days, the gen Z years Dilu. They are both DiLullo and. Wildly not okay. After Donna was viciously murdered. Dan and mark. Talked a little bit longer and then eventually stopped. Ice cold. I get the feeling that Dan wanted something to continue. However, mark. Stopped engaging with her interacting stopped the connection altogether. Because he eventually now at that point in time was with Rebecca. Living a very exciting fun-filled life. And Diane hated that. She also knew that she had information that she had to live with day in and day out. Which also is her own fault, but. I think she was under this illusion that she was going to be with mark. She would do anything to be with mark, which meant. She would allow for him to do such an act. I do think she was under the weird hypnotism of mark. However, that doesn't mean she should get away with any of this in terms of. Hiding these details and keeping it close to the chest. She was the only one that knew the real story. And she felt slighted. She didn't get her man. And two. She was holding onto a huge piece of evidence. Not only did Dan go on a whole spree. Of talking to the police station. She also found out that mark was in the midst of settling a$1.5 million settlement for Donna's death. And boy, would you believe it? She would not let that happen. No way Jose, she called that law firm that was currently in the midst of doing the settlement and said, you should really think settling with Mr. Winger. And she hung up immediately. Of course having so much money on the line, they call back because they're obviously concerned. And unsure what Dan is alluding to. But they're not getting a lot more information about anything. Because they had an inkling that maybe there was some kind of truth to this. They decided to look more closely at the settlement and pause the process altogether. This information was shared with law enforcement. And the case was reopened Law enforcement fumbled, everything from the beginning. Don't even get me started. I'm gonna start up here, but it. Truly pisses me off. Everything from the beginning of the case, they did an absolute, horrible job. They didn't investigate anything. They basically looked at the information from just Mark's statement and went with it. Now the other. Awful thing that they did in the fumble of this case. I was, they handed over all of the evidence to mark Winger's attorney to support. Them in their trial for the settlement. For Donna's death. Not only did they not investigate at all, they handed out all the evidence to someone that could very well have been the villain in this horrible, horrible murder murders. I should say.. Law enforcement's like, Hey, we need that back. Could you just do us a solid and give us back all the evidence? And the case was reopened. D Anne's claimed her statement. Opened up the possibility that they would have to operate from a completely different perspective. One where mark wasn't the hero that they thought, but instead the whole ass billon. I'm going to explain something that is going to instantly enrage you. Officer Cox has a clear confirmation bias because he has dealt with Roger Harrington in the past. He is holding that as this guy must be the perpetrator, right? Addition to this, he had suspicion that.. Mark was the one who had committed these crimes. He had that suspicion just two months after the murders happened. Because mark had came into the police station to meet with officers to get his gun back. Odd. And although it was a weird request given it was a clear reminder of his wife's death. The officers released the gun. Both officers became suspicious when mark would arrive more often to check how the case was going. There was any more findings. Officer Cox said just two months after the murders occurred. Quote. He kept coming in. I kept feeling like he was trying to find out if we were checking into anything. Then I would go back to officer Doug and said, something's wrong here. Big time. Doug Williamson. The other officer in the case shared the same sentiment. Something seemed off and he thought that they should reevaluate the crime scene findings and look further into the case. AKA, look at the case at all. Anyway. Williamson was turned down by officer Cox and the supervisors. They had a suspicion very soon after, but they let a whole 6.5 years go by before Dee Ann would call into the police station to look at any evidence whatsoever. They finally got this evidence back from mark wingers attorney. Who they released all the evidence too during their settlement de. There was three Polaroids that were given over a hammer. A note found and Roger hearing tins car. And they would shine a complete light on this case quickly after receiving the evidence from mark wingers attorney. Three Polaroid pictures proved mark story to be completely false. Officer Berenger had snapped three the night of the attacks, but the pictures were never once glanced at. And the photos showed the placement of the bodies, which judging by mark statement in these pictures, they were completely contradicting. The Polaroids showed that Roger Harrington's head and feet were opposite of the story given to law enforcement by mark. On the day of the murders. This would be the main focus in the trial. When officer Cox was asked about how a piece of evidence this damning could be overlooked from the start. Officer Cox noted. Quote. God overlooked and a case that was closed as fast as this one was, it was never thought of again. This thing was closed by 10 30 news that night for all practical purposes. I have no. Comments nor no words because I'm enraged and I'm sure you are too. Now is that the case was actually being evaluated and looked at closely. The detectives had many looming questions. Number one. If Roger did do this and planned on murdering Donna, why would he rely on a murder weapon? The hammer or the gun. The one at the scene. Instead of taking a long, his own. Because there was a knife and a tire iron located in his car. Number two.. The note left in his car. It had Mark's name. On it, along with his address and the time they were scheduled to meet. Now, this shows you're planning on meeting with mark. That it was a planned visit. I don't know about you, but I doubt many murders would carry a note describing exactly where they're going to be going. When they're planning on murdering someone. Number three.. The door was unlocked and there was no forced entry. Now tell me this. If you're Donna and you've experienced a terrifying situation with someone who drove you home. Why would you open the door to someone you fear? In other words, why would you put your baby down? And go to the door. All to say that makes me think that Donna was not the one to open the door. Mark had a scheduled visit. He was planning on seeing Roger that day. Which is why you didn't see a break in. But you saw someone. Open the door. To lure that person. Number four. Why does mark go to the bedroom first? I'm going to do. A hot take here. I'm hearing my loved one scream, you betcha. I am headed towards that area of the house. And I am not dilly-dallying around. Now, if he heard commotion wouldn't he want to go directly to the scene. For all he knew Bailey could have been with Donna. And she could have been experiencing the same harm that Donna was in.. Number five, the story changed multiple times. As I said in the beginning of the episode, there's two separate interviews. And one is by Sergeant Charles Cox and another is with officer Dan Jones. Now both of these interviews took place on the same day. Mark explained two separate incidents. He's explaining these two incidents and these two officers aren't corroborating stories together at all. During his interview with officer Cox, he explained that he shot a man. And that man fell rolled off of Donna to the floor. He mentioned shooting Harrington in the forehead, and then later striking Harrington and the chest with a hammer. After he heard him making moaning and groaning noises. Another iteration he shares is that he shot the man. He fell backwards on the ground, but he wasn't sure if he had missed him. So when he started to get back up, he shot him again in the forehead. This is just a few iterations that he shared, but there were many, many more. Number six, the way that mark describes the scene does not match the Polaroid photos shown. At the scene, there is a ton of blood splatter. Like I said, it's covered. Amongst the walls amongst the ceiling. All of that. So those blood splatters don't match a scene that he is explaining. On top of that, the bodies that were found and that were documented. We're not lined up the way that mark said. Mark said that in one of the iterations. Hearing 10 rolled off of Donna. Now, if he rolled off of Donna, then his head probably would have landed right by her head. It wouldn't have had his speed land by her head. That wouldn't make sense. On top of that. If he went to go console data, like he stated to police as well. Then, if he's holding her head up, then why did they find her body face down? Lastly number seven. Why was the coffee mug and cigarettes left at the scene by Roger. Seems kind of odd for someone that is going to go in and murder someone to casually bring those items in. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to go and do that, I would not roll in with the pecan crunch latte and just casually sip away as I'm doing the deed. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And specially if you're trying to be. Discrete, you wouldn't leave it behind an expression. If you're trying to go. In and out quickly. You're not going to post up for the day. now what everyone's been waiting for the trial. And 2001, there was enough proof to align mark with being a prime suspect of these homicides. He was arrested and sent to jail to await his trial. At 2002 United States district, judge Richard Mills, let the court and determining if mark Wiener. We'll be charged with a criminal act of homicides for both Donald. And broader Harrington. Attendees where many of the Springfield. So there are a lot of Springfield attendees because they knew Donna's mother and father. Sarah Jane and IRA Drescher. Who all love, except for the fact that their daughter was killed by Roger Harrington. And part of them really wanted to still believe it because why would they believe that mark. Amy's father was capable of this. Another was Sally, who was Mark's mother. And she held on to her son's innocence. She always asked the question. What reason would he have in hurting on it? And another family was Roger Harrington. So always held the belief that their son had nothing to do with this. And although he struggled with his own mental health issues, I never pictured her son involved in any of these kinds of heinous acts, especially towards that the stranger. Now to begin the trial, the prosecution team was led by John Schmidt. And they spoke to mark winger lined from the very beginning. The 9 1 1 call. They claimed that he had known Roger Harrington and that him claiming he didn't upon that nine one, one call was an utter lie. According to the note left on the seat of Roger Harrington's car. It was obvious that mark was expecting Roger to come to the house because they had scheduled a meeting at the time of four 30. And somebody that could collaborate. The story was Ray Duffy, the owner of the airport shuttle company. He received a call from mark who had filed a complaint. Uh, Roger Harrington and mark asked to speak with the driver directly. And although Ray found this odd because most people would just call the office and complain to the office itself. He didn't give Roger. And mark the benefit of the doubt instead of this meeting so that they can talk through it and hopes that Roger, to get his job back. So that was mostly, I mean, approved show. Although Ray found this odd because typically people that call in would just leave a message with the main office to leave a complaint. He thought, you know, maybe Roger and mark could work this out on their own. Roger could in turn, get his job back. And they could just be on the same page with everything. He was able to testify that mark was clearly luring Roger to a central location. Nearly 50 witnesses spoke relating to framing of Roger Harrington and the murder of his wife, Donna winger. So that was the whole idea. That was the idea from the onset to make sure she wrote out the details of her car ride, because he thought that that would be the perfect foundation to set the scene and the plot of this man that was unhinged coming after their family. He started that. You know, days before having her write. This note, he also asked a coworker at some point, if he no longer had Donna in the picture, if she passed away, what would happen to her adopted daughter Bailey? So there was so many people that came forward alluding to the fact they knew things were off. There was another person by the name of Susan Collins, who overheard Roger Harrington, making the appointment over the phone and hopes to be able to meet with mark at four 30. And there was also officer Doug Williamson who spoke to the murder weapon edge by which Roger come in with one. So there was a lot of how the scene was laid out was they had the scheduled time of four 30. So the prosecution team laid out the whole general timeline of what happened. Harrington left at 3:30 PM, arrived to the winger residency around three 50 and neighbors of the wingers witnessed Harrington pull up to the house. Close to three 50. And then after further evaluation of the bodies at the crime scene, they thought that the actual murder happened sometime around 4 27. So that's when paramedics came in and saw Donna was based down in Florida and Harrington was located nearby. Now I want to also speak to the bloodstain patterns so they could have someone at the trial at Tom bevel who works for a company that specialized in bloodstain pattern analysis and crime scene reconstruction. He was able to look at the crime scene and testify to the bloodstain evidence that showed winter shot Harrington and the top of the head. At which point he beat it to death with a hammer. And then after some time passed, he shot hearing 10 again of the head. Remember the two, nine, eleven phone calls that were a little spaced out. Those reenactment of the scene when the bullet. What is expected to go in and when the second bullet was, they were able to map out all of that pretty well. And so Tom bevel was a key component of speaking to this. there was all your key people speaking to, knowing about what had happened in terms of the schedule lining up, seeing him pull up to the house, hearing some information or some chatter about certain things taking place. However, the most damning of evidence was the three Polaroids. Now remember, those three Polaroids were taken and then tucked away and never seen again until they were requested from Mark Winger's attorney to be handed over. And those three Polaroids showed where the placement of the bodies were. Donna was laid out and Roger's feet were towards her head. If we're alluding to Mark's Explanation of what happened. It would have made sense for both of their heads to land by each other if he ruled off of Donna. Prosecution really leaned on the Polaroids to. Paint a picture. To paint a picture to the jurors. And that was the smoking gun that they needed. Mark says at a later time outside of the trial, that the only reason this had happened was because paramedics had moved the bodies prior to taking the photo. AKA, let's just grasp at straws and throw things at the wall to see what sticks at this point, because you know, you're wrong and you know, you have literal blood on your hands The most. Important of witnesses was Dan. Diane shared all of the incriminating information about mark and the lead up to the murder, their fare, which resulted in his planned out. Plot of getting Roger Harrington into the house to frame him for the murder of Donna in which he had carried out every single thing, which is killing Roger Harrington and killing his wife. So Dan shared the same information she shared with detectives. And killing his wife. Dan shared the same information that she shared with law enforcement over the phone. That they had carried out a love affair, and that mark said the best way. Was if Donna was dead. That evidence at court carried the most weight, showing an intense. Now probably the one thing that mark did do well through this whole thing is he decided to not take the witness stand. And I would say in his best interest, I'm happy. He did not. If I'm being honest here, At later points outside of the trial. I mentioned that he alludes to the Polaroids being taken after the fact in that Roger Harrington had four 30 written on a note, but he has no idea why he was not planning on meeting with him ever. And after 13 hours of deliberation, the jury reached a verdict. I was guilty on two counts of murder, both Donna Wiener and Roger Harrington. The. It was agreed that Harrington never had murder on their mind. Right into the residency. He was merely meeting with mark to figure out the circumstance and hopes to get a straw back. I was quoted to say, if you're going to go over to kill somebody, You don't just bring a pack of cigarettes and something to drink and just hope number two, by this point to be there, Gerald. All agreed. I mean of evidence where the three. Clearly pointed to positioning of bodies and stories of marks and what actually happened. Been vastly different Uh, juror at the trial said, quote, if you're going to go over the kill, somebody, you don't bring a pack of cigarettes and something to drink. And just hope that the murder weapon is going to be there. Jurors all agreed that the most Damion of evidence where the three Polaroids that clearly pointed to the positioning of the bodies and the stories of marks and what actually happened being vastly different. The penalty for mark was life in prison at the state penitentiary in Pontiac, Illinois. the story does not in tear. For really anyone. Mark filed appeal after appeal, after appeal. Since he was indicted on the charges and since he was charged with the offenses, He kept on filing motion after motion. To a plethora of things. I would be here until the end of 20, 25. If I got into every single appeal he did, but some of them for releasing evidence for DNA testing and he wanted. You know, the item of the hammer to be DNA tested the court denied motion. Another petition was filed for various claims. He felt that bevels explanation of the DNA. Let's. Butter and weren't challenged. And he failed to cross examine Schultz, which was Angelo. And brought up her mental health, making her less than capable of being able to testify as she had multiple suicide attempts before the murders. So he's an insensitive prick. Now the court denied the petition. had cocaine addiction and throughout the years he claimed different things. That Schultz was it. Uh, complex, uh, DNA needed to be reevaluated appeal after appeal. Year after year, he's putting these families through the worst of situations and in 2006, Linger wasn't done committing crimes. Now he had to advise a plan in his prison cell. He had befriended a fellow prisoner, Terry. And ask for Other things that he said that could not be proved was that Dan Schultz had a cocaine issue and she was an addict and she couldn't testify because of that. Also that she was at accomplice to the murder of Donna winger and Roger Harrington. Which there was also no information or evidence for that claim as well. So really he's just trying to throw den. Under the bus. Trying to get anything pinned on her because of his frustration with the whole. Delvin. The reason somebody would ultimately pay all the killer for the deaths of both. Now Terry claim that everyone wants to take out someone in their case. It didn't really think much of it, but you want to use this moment to speak with private investigator. Ultimately, Terry did not want to go through with any of this. And he wanted to use it for his game. So he agreed to have a wire to speak, to get a confession out of Mark's attention, to see the plan through. And this was taken into trial. When investigators came to meet with me. He thought they were there to speak to Schultz's involvement in the murder of Donna and Roger. However, when asked him about the solicitation of murders, he claimed that this wasn't the case and Terry was trying to. Quote unquote, scam him. It. Terry went on to write 19 pages of how to go about the crime, but spoke to it being just a way to pass time and sell. Never having been attached to do such a serious crime. No, because they believe Terry that he had no involvement of trying to get this to be turned to the other way and to ultimately kill either of the people that spark wanted him to kill. Terry did receive 3000, 250 paid out along with paying his brother's phone bill. That was another request. And he was transferred to another prison where he could obtain a job. Following closing arguments, the jury found a fit to guilty on both counts. Lock them up and July, 2007, defendant filed a motion for a new trial and other post-trial relief, which the trial trial court denied thereafter. The court sentenced defendant to concurrence. Five-year prison terms on each count with both counts with a murder conviction from St. John county. So he basically had a white president plus an additional 35 years. I tried to hire a Hitman. To kill both of these people. Now. We know it's 58 years old, serving a life sentence for the murders and incarceration center in brown county. 75 miles west of Springfield. And that concludes the winner in case. Currently Rebecca is thriving. She divorced mark and kind of is just living a quiet life while raising her kids. And both of the families of Donna and marks and Rodgers obviously are surviving big impacts on all of their families, having to go through such a tremendously heavy situation. And you know what it was all to show that. Very sinister things can happen and that people may seem like they're a good fit together, but ultimately things can be a little bit insidious under the surface. So lock them up, throw away the key that. In your case, and I'm happy that everyone tuned. And along this week, this coming month is going to be all about the sleepiness of October. Terry ended up writing 19 pages of how to go about a crime. But spoke to it being just a way to pass the time. With never having any intention to actually help mark with it. Terry received$3,250. And they were able to pay his mother's phone bill as well. Per his request. He was also transferred to another prison where he could obtain a job. Falling closing arguments. The jury found defendant guilty on both counts in July, 2007. Defendant filed a motion for a new trial and other post-trial relief, but the court denied. Thereafter the court sentenced defendant to a con current 35 year prison terms on each count. With both counts to run concurrently with this murder conviction from San Gabon county. He currently has. The life in prison, along with an extra 35 years for this. Mark winger is 58 years old and he's serving a life sentence at Western Illinois correctional center and brown county. 75 miles west of Springfield. I want to note that Rebecca is doing absolutely fabulous. She lives a quiet life. She was able to divorce mark, and now she is raising her kids. Obviously through this whole case, there's so many families that had to go through an abundant amount of turmoil due to mark winger. And have to live without their loved ones. These families have went through hell and back, and my heart goes out to them. Thank you so much for listening today. I am going to do a pallet cleanser. Let's see. I'm probably gonna eat like a bag of gummy bears. Um, watch. Some trash TV. And go on walk. Cleanse my brain watch something funny and I hope you do too. This coming month is spooky season and I am going to be going. Off script of my normal Mirta and onto some spooky stuff. So tune in for this month, it's going to be really, really fun. And I hope that y'all enjoy. Have a wonderful week ahead and I hope you keep listening. Okay. Take care. Bye.